--- title: "Ep 9. From \"certainty\" to \"seeking exploration\" - with Margaret Heffernan" description: In this episode of Ambition. Unleashed. Sara Moore and Guest host Justin Temblett-Wood look into how leaders can take an approach of seeking exploration over the need for certainty. image: https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/Ambition-Unleashed_episode9.png --- - [Home](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/) - [How we help](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help) - [Leadership & team development](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/services/leadership-and-team-development) - [Enabling change](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/services/enabling-change) - [Collaboration & business partnering](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/services/business-and-supplier-partnering) - [Culture transformation](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/services/culture-transformation) - [Breakthrough Thinking methodology](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/services/methodology-breakthrough-thinking) - [L&D programmes](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/our-programmes) - [Blended & virtual learning](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/services/virtual-breakthrough) - [Challenges we solve](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/how-we-help/challenges-we-solve) - [Clients](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/who-we-work-with) - [Who we work with](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/who-we-work-with) - [Case studies](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/case-studies) - [Where we work](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/where-we-work) - [About](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/about) - [Our people](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/about/our-people) - [Humanifesto](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/about/our-story) - [100% responsibility](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/about/responsibility) - [Careers](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/about/careers) - [Resources](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/podcast/ep-8.-from-certainty-to-seeking-exploration-with-margaret-heffernan#!) - [![leadership](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/leadership_link.jpg)Leadership blog](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/leadership) - [![podcast](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/podcast_image.jpg)Podcast](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/podcast) - [![Whitepaper blog](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/uploads/files/whitepaper-thumbnail.jpg)Whitepaper blog](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/whitepaper-blog) - [![Whitepaper](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/uploads/files/whitepaper-blog-thumb.png)Whitepaper](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/whitepaper-landing-page) - [Contact](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/contact) - [Login](https://training.achievebreakthrough.com/login) # Ambition. Unleashed. Ep 9. From "certainty" to "seeking exploration" - with Margaret Heffernan ![Untitled design-37-1](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/Untitled%20design-37-1.png) Host: Gemma Toner ![Ep 9. From "certainty" to "seeking exploration" - with Margaret Heffernan](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/Ambition-Unleashed_episode9.png "Ep 9. From \"certainty\" to \"seeking exploration\" - with Margaret Heffernan") ### **Ep 9. SHIFT EIGHT: Certainty > Seeking Exploration \[with Margaret Heffernan\]**   In this episode of Ambition. Unleashed. Sara Moore and Guest host Justin Temblett-Wood look into how leaders can take an approach of seeking exploration over the need for certainty. A willingness to believe in planning, but not plans, will free leaders from self-imposed prisons that restrict their ability to act and react in uncertain times. It requires bravery to step away from apparent certainty, and insight to understand that certainty is built on context and interpretation rather than reality. If leaders can throw off these shackles and embrace exploration and experimentation, then they will be well-equipped to prepare for, and benefit from, the unexpected and thrive rather than just survive in volatile times.   ![Margaret](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/Margaret.jpg) #### Guest: Dr Margaret Heffernan Today’s guest, Dr Margaret Heffernan produced programmes for the BBC for 13 years. She then moved to the US where she spearheaded multimedia productions for Intuit, The Learning Company and Standard&Poors. She was Chief Executive of InfoMation Corporation, ZineZone Corporation and then iCast Corporation, was named one of the "Top 25" by [Streaming Media](https://www.streamingmedia.com/Default.aspx) magazine and one of the "Top 100 Media Executives" by [The Hollywood Reporter](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/).   The author of six books, Margaret’s third book, [Wilful Blindness : Why We Ignore the Obvious at our Peril](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-wilfulblindness.php) was named one of the most important business books of the decade by the Financial Times. In 2015, she was awarded the Transmission Prize for [A Bigger Prize: Why Competition isn’t Everything and How We Do Better](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-abiggerprize.php), described as "meticulously researched... engagingly written... universally relevant and hard to fault."   Her [TED talks](https://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_heffernan_the_human_skills_we_need_in_an_unpredictable_world) have been seen by over fifteen million people and in 2015 TED published [Beyond Measure: The Big Impact of Small Changes](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-beyondmeasure.php). Her most recent book, [Uncharted: How to map the future](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-uncharted.php) was published in 2020. It quickly became a bestseller and was nominated for the Financial Times Best Business Book award, was one of Bloomberg’s Best Books of 2021 and was chosen as the "Medium Best of the Best" business book.   She is a Professor of Practice at the University of Bath, Lead Faculty for the Forward Institute's Responsible Leadership Programme and, through [Merryck & Co.](https://www.merryck.com/mentors/), mentors CEOs and senior executives of major global organizations. She chairs the board of DACS and has advised the Casey Review into the culture and standards of the Metropolitan Police and the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse led by Alexis Jay. In 2023 Margaret was inducted into the [Thinkers50](https://thinkers50.com/hall-of-fame/) Hall of Fame. She is a frequent [broadcaster](http://www.mheffernan.com/resources.php#radio) on BBC Radio 4 and the author of many broadcast plays and programmes. --- **Show notes, links and further reading** Margarets Book: [Wilful Blindness : Why We Ignore the Obvious at our Peril](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-wilfulblindness.php)    Margarets Book: [A Bigger Prize: Why Competition isn’t Everything and How We Do Better](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-abiggerprize.php)   Margarets Ted Talks: [TED talks](https://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_heffernan_the_human_skills_we_need_in_an_unpredictable_world)    Margarets Book: [Beyond Measure: The Big Impact of Small Changes](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-beyondmeasure.php).   Margarets Book: [Uncharted: How to map the future](http://www.mheffernan.com/book-uncharted.php) Blog: [Don’t hesitate to declare a sustainability breakthrough (achievebreakthrough.com)](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/leadership/dont-hesitate-to-declare-a-sustainability-breakthrough) Blog: [Why you might not succeed at sustainability: Enrolment vs. engagement (achievebreakthrough.com)](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/leadership/why-you-might-not-succeed-at-sustainability-enrolment-vs.-engagement) Blog: [Getting comfortable with being uncomfortable (achievebreakthrough.com)](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/leadership/getting-comfortable-with-being-uncomfortable) Blog: [The Power of the Open-Ended Answer (achievebreakthrough.com)](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/leadership/the-power-of-the-open-ended-answer) Website: [Organisational & People Development | Behaviour | Achieve Breakthrough](https://www.achievebreakthrough.com/) --- ### Share - [![twitter](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/icon-twitter-pink.png)](https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/podcast/ep-8.-from-certainty-to-seeking-exploration-with-margaret-heffernan&original_referer=http://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/) - [![linkedin](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hubfs/icon-linkedin-pink.png)](https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/podcast/ep-8.-from-certainty-to-seeking-exploration-with-margaret-heffernan&source=http://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/) ##### Subscribe to the podcast [![spotify_icon](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hs-fs/hubfs/spotify_icon.png?width=42&height=42&name=spotify_icon.png)](https://open.spotify.com/show/7E2J7odImvsrVlmKxU9Xgx) [![apple_podcast_icon](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hs-fs/hubfs/apple_podcast_icon.png?width=42&height=42&name=apple_podcast_icon.png)](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ambition-unleashed/id1607993971) [![spotify_icon](https://thinking.achievebreakthrough.com/hs-fs/hubfs/spotify_icon.png?width=42&height=42&name=spotify_icon.png)](https://open.spotify.com/show/7E2J7odImvsrVlmKxU9Xgx) ##### Next episode Soft Power, Strong Results with Julia Robertson Join Gemma Toner as she sits down with leaders, experts and changemakers to uncover the stories, ... 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